THE LAST DITCH

Link: Adopt sharia law in Britain, says the Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams – Telegraph.

The responses to the Archbishop of Canterbury’s speech are more troubling than his words. Emotion has been exceeded only by ignorance. Khalid Mahmood, the Muslim Labour MP for Birmingham
Perry Barr, outrageously said:

This is very misguided. There is no half-way house
with this… What part of sharia law does he want?  The sort that is practised in Saudi Arabia, which they are struggling to get away from?

Given the gentle tenor of the Archbishop’s actual comments, this is demagoguery. The Prime Minister also appears on this matter (as many others) a complete idiot:

The Prime Minister believes British law should apply in this country, based on British values

said his official spokesman. This, despite the fact that there is no such thing as "British Law"( I leave, for the moment, the more difficult question of whether there is any such thing as a "British value.")

I am a Solicitor of the Supreme Court of England & Wales, qualified to advise only on the laws of that jurisdiction. Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own, entirely different, legal systems. They are just as alien to me, as a lawyer, as is Russia where I live and work.

There are three families of legal system in the world; Common Law, Civil Law and Islamic Law. England & Wales is (I know it sounds wrong, but "is" is right in this context) a common law jurisdiction. Indeed England is the mother of all common law jurisdictions. Scotland is a civil law state. The most important common law jurisdiction in the world today, the United States of America, has a civil law state operating efficiently within it.

Yet philosophically, the division between the Common Law and the Civil Law may be more profound than that between Christianity and Islam. All of which is interesting (at least to me) but as irrelevant to what the Archbishop said as is the existence (angrily condemned by bloggers unaware they had operated quietly for centuries) of the Beth Din Jewish Courts. As the website of the London Beth Din explains:

In Jewish Law, Jewish parties are forbidden to take their civil disputes to a secular court and are required to have those disputes adjudicated by a Beth Din. The LBD sits as an arbitral tribunal in respect of civil disputes and the parties to any such dispute are required to sign an Arbitration Agreement prior to a Hearing taking place. The effect of this is that the award given by the Beth Din has the full force of an Arbitration Award and may be enforced (with prior permission of the Beth Din) by the civil courts.

That Jews, between themselves, submit disputes to such courts, is no more a threat to our legal order than the secular arbitation courts designed for speedy settlement of commercial disputes. Parties who submit to such courts agree, as a matter of contract, to accept their decisions. The public courts enforce their awards just as they would enforce other agreements. There is no harm in it; no threat to any unique "British values." Indeed, a more sophisticated Brit might think allowing people to order their own affairs was at the core of "British values." No such private arrangement can supplant or override our laws. Any attempt to do so would be overruled on appeal to the public courts.

None of these arrangements, of course, apply to criminal law. The Crown (our quaint personification of the British state) is a party to all criminal cases. When I am eventually prosecuted (as must happen to us all if our authoritarian government continues to make one new crime per day) Her Majesty will prosecute me in her own courts.

Welsh_godbothererThe Archbishop has raised a firestorm, but he advocated nothing more than an Islamic Beth Din. Since (a) this already exists (without the sky falling), (b) the laws of our lands cannot be overridden by it, and (c) it has nothing to do with criminal law, the current Sharia "hand-chopping" hysteria is misplaced. As Dr Williams said in the radio interview, "choice" is important. As long as Muslims can choose to go to the public courts, there is simply no story. Move along now. Nothing to see.

The full text of the unkempt Welsh God-botherer’s speech (and a recording of the radio interview which set the blogosphere "off on one") is here. I challenge my more heated blogging colleagues to read it and retract their inflammatory remarks.

Regular readers know that I hate multiculturalism. My culture is entitled to prevail in its native land. Newcomers should respect as I have learned to respect and admire the cultures of the other countries in which I have lived and worked Nor I am any friend of Islamism. I applauded this week in Paris as a French philosopher described it as "the third fascism" (for such it is). But if we criticise Muslims wildly and without justification, we may lose the most important argument of our lives. This is an argument on which the future of our civilisation may depend. We must be honest and true if our criticisms are to prevail.

I have to admit that Dr Williams’ naievety is troubling. He is the leader of an evangelistic religion which believes there is only "one way" to God, through Jesus. Why, rather than evangelise the Muslims amongst us, does he pander to them so? How can such an intelligent man so often fail to anticipate the effect of his words? Is he completely out of touch with his confused flock, so badly in need of his leadership?

Perhaps, though, all this is consistent with his faith. After all, Christians, unlike Muslims, follow a naïf.

12 responses to “Adopt sharia law in Britain, says the Archbishop”

  1. Matthew Sinclair Avatar

    Tom,
    I think you’ve got this wrong, see James Behrens’ comments:
    http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/files/sharia_legal.rtf
    I don’t think the Archbishop was proposing the status quo, although he was very unclear.

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  2. Tom Paine Avatar

    Matthew, I have got it wrong to the extent that I have failed to explain myself. As the communicator here, that’s my responsibility and if a sophisticated reader such as you doesn’t get it then I must be at fault. My point is that the outcry is based on misconceptions. The AofC clearly stated in his radio interview that recourse to Sharia “courts” should be a matter of choice, and that recourse to the civil courts should always be available. In his address he specifically referenced the Beth Din courts. He’s not advocating, as I read him, any introduction of Sharia Law into the mainstream. Even his less-well-judged comments (about Muslims not “relating to” English Law) were qualified in ways not reported in the media. He said [muslim communities] “relate to something other than the British legal system alone” – which is just as true of Orthodox Jews and Catholics. Frankly, I don’t “relate” much to English Law these days, and I am an officer of the court. His intervention was ill-judged and redundant but nothing he actually said justifies the hysterical responses. I read the text you referred me to, but it is perfectly consistent with mine.

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  3. Dave Petterson Avatar
    Dave Petterson

    I see what you are suggesting and it makes sense however to me it was encapsulated in this one statement. ‘the UK has to “face up to the fact” that some of its citizens do not relate to the British legal system.’
    That doesnt sound like a little group of people in a street saying lets create a little court where we can settle our disputes like gentlemen and deal with cases that do not warrant a court session.
    Plus the problem is that as reasonable as this sounds it’s only the first step not the end. It always is with this lot. Every single step sounds reasonable in isolation until we have given away the whole farm.

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  4. Tom Paine Avatar

    Dave, that was the reported statement, but the more accurate quote is in my comment above. Everyone WANTS this to be a story, so it is. There are many real stories about Islam in Britain but this isn’t one of them. To satisfy a visceral feeling that the Muslims must be given nothing, because they will then want more we are walking into a situation where some addle-brained people are calling for the dissolution of the Beth Din courts. They have functioned harmlessly for centuries and they are no-one’s business but the people who choose to use them. Here are all we freedom-loving people getting angry at the idea of communities settling their differences between themselves at zero cost to the taxpayer money. Does that make sense? If two English businessmen chose to settle a commercial dispute in a boxing ring, rather than waste time in court would you care? It might be barbaric but if they agreed to it, it would be none of your business, right? This is really no different.
    We must stay rational in the face of irrationality. Our rationality is better than theirs, but our irrationality is just as bad!

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  5. James G. Avatar

    One of the main things that bothers me about this is that Judeo-Christianity has a long history of separating state authority from religious authority.
    Sharia does not recognise a difference between the two. And civil and criminal law are inseparable in sharia.
    Another thing is that he is working with the Ramadhan Foundation who are buddies with Qaradawi et al. One of the aims for the Muslim Brothers (and I am pretty sure the Ramadhan Foundation is an offshoot) is to spread political Islam through peaceful means until it becomes the law of the land wherever they go.
    He is at best, a dupe, and at worst, a fellow traveller.

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  6. Kinderling Avatar

    Tom,
    All religion is bunkum. Sai Baba does a magic trick the people are inspired, someone shows you meditation and you seek the transcendental state. Sadly, people in the UK still think those who get degrees in Myth have something to say. People of the Book only know how to be People of the Book.
    Jews only know how to be Jews.
    Christianity, as Dr Williams practices is a Babylonian cult, not the wonderful philosophy of attitude of being as a child. The Roman Catholic manifestation being the most cruel and violent.
    To make anything of Islam’s sexual cult propagated by their prophet’s promising penises will survive death and decay to go to heaven, is to allow another beast thru the door. The Catholic-Christian, Tony Blair ruled by appeasement, the Useful Idiot, to legislate our freedoms away for the higher collective ideals of communism and his capitalist pocket. Servant like Master.
    Dr Williams speaks for the legislature, and the British public is revolting. Merely a rumble of things to come.

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  7. delicolor Avatar

    Tom, I am delighted that once again an erudite, well informed blogger can “cut the crap” and give a balanced analysis. It was also informative in general- I didn’t realise that the Scottish system was Civil rather than common. Does this equate to the European Napoleonic or inquisitorial system, or is that off at a tangent? (I understand that to mean everything is barred unless it is permitted, gradually moving to the Soviet model of everything permitted is compulsory).
    I have no problem with Shariah courts for voluntary Civil law, why should I? I don’t have a problem with ACAS. either, as an advisory, conciliation and arbitration service.
    Where it starts to get dodgy, however, will be the likelihood that in the Muslim community, peer pressure (& mosque pressure) makes it non-voluntary as a choice.

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  8. Political Umpire Avatar

    If it were simply a matter of freedom of contract, that is to say, people can arrange their financial affairs along Sharia lines and have their disputes mediated by Sharia, then the arbitral decisions enforced just like they are for, say, shipping contracts subject to London arbitration under New York Law etc, then there would have been no controversy. And no need for the Archbishop to have said anything in the first place. The fact he spent a waffly speech banging on about it suggests he was arguing for something more.
    Some phrases which might support the view that he was arguing for more than just freedom of contract:
    “the stark alternatives of cultural loyalty or state loyalty”
    “An approach to law which simply said – there’s one law for everybody – I think that’s a bit of a danger.”
    As far as I’m concerned it is absurd. There should be a separation of church and state. If people sign a contract incorporating terms they happen to have derived from, say, the Player’s Handbook from Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, then that’s their business. The courts will enforce the contract as long as it is not contrary to public policy or other legal restriction.
    But I am not Dr Williams; or, rather, he is not me. He is the leader of the Christian Church in England. He ought to be proclaiming the truth of the Christian way and its primacy amongst religions in England. If he doesn’t accept either proposition, then he should step down from his job. He has form on this. In his very first lecture as A/C he hardly mentioned the Christian faith at all, instead banging on about religion and ‘market forces’. Then, after 7/7, he spoke of ‘faith communities hanging together’ as if 7/7 represented an attack on religion by non-faith communities, when in fact it was the total opposite.
    One concludes his own faith in his own religion is very weak indeed.

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  9.  Avatar
    Anonymous

    If all the AoC was saying was that the application of sharia law in Britain is a matter analogous to arbitration he could have said that in 100 words or less. He chose not to. I have also (tried to) read the transcript of the AoC’s lecture and very dense stuff it is too: not only dense but ambiguous. You can read a lot into it (and out of it) if you’re so inclined. However, just because he uses long words and writes confusingly, this does not mean that the AoC is some intellectual giant nor that the ideas he is seeking to peddle are not the usual pedestrian multi-culti dross.
    For a small part of my education I had the privilege of learning at the feet of a real intellectual – Michael Oakeshott. His ideas were difficult to convey in a few words but his books and lectures had a density which repaid concentrated analysis. MO’s philosophy might have been complex but he was seeking to be clear. The same cannot be said of the AoC whose evident willingness to obfuscate is evidenced by the lack of clarity of this lecture and the attendant fuss caused by the apparent general (although possibly, according to Tom Paine, wilful) failure to understand what the AoC is talking about.

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  10. Tom Paine Avatar

    I made it pretty clear I thought he was naieve. He was saying nothing new and nothing that needed to be reiterated. It seems he was saying little more than “it is inevitable, given the growing population of muslims in Britain, that we will see more and more adjudications by sharia law tribunals.” Well, duh. If our Jewish population were growing, we would see more Beth Din hearings. So what? Then (using the sort of long words guaranteed to infuriate the anti-intellectual snobs of Britain) he asked the inflammatory question, “would it necessarily be a bad thing?” The responses tell more about the respondents than about him.
    Should our intellectuals, when talking to each other, have to consider how their words might be edited by the yellow press or wicked politicians in order to make mischief? Is it not the case that most politicians who commented on the affair were practising “dog whistle” politics to signal dislike for the much-feared muslim minority, including – amazingly – at least one muslim? To that extent, yes, I think the misunderstanding was willful. Many blogospherians simply went “off on one” at the sight of a familiar, disliked, public figure appearing to speak favourably of said feared minority.
    I am against “multiculti.” I think Williams is a weak waffler. But I also think that we are showing our soft underbelly to a deadly enemy. It is foolish to select quicksand for a battlefield and it does not make one an defeatist or a coward to say so. Nor, pace some commenters here, does defending a foolish theologian in trouble, make one a believer in his (or anyone’s) “god”
    It was bad enough when Bill Clinton and, in Britain, Tony Blair developed the dark art of the soundbite. Now, it seem, you deserve all you get if you do NOT practise that dark art. The Archbishop is naieve and unworldly. Good. So he should be. “Suffer the little children” and all that. Now, please (to coin a picturesque phrase) stop judging a Godly man by Satan’s standards.

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  11.  Avatar
    Anonymous

    One of my points was that I doubt he is such an intellectual giant as you imply. It is possible both to use long words and be clear in using those words. Like you, I do not consider that he should temper his words or reduce his argument to sound bites. Nevertheless, if you are a public figure and you insist on (or agree to) appearing on Radio 4 to talk about what you are going to talk about, then you owe it both to yourself and the “general listener” to be quite clear about what you are saying. Naivete is no excuse. You do not become head of one of the pillars of our culture by being naive: foolish and not as clever as he thinks? possibly; ambitious? certainly – but naive?
    Blaming the AoC’s situation on naivete and unworldliness is to hand him a “get of of jail free” card. He is responsible, not only for the argument that he’s putting forward but for any avoidable misunderstandings which such an argument creates. He knows – or should have known (if he doesn’t, where have he and his advisers been for the last 5 years?) – that any statement concerning sharia law in the UK is almost bound to be contentious. My belief is that he knew it would be contentious and wished to give it the maximum publicity: hence his appearance on Radio 4. Furthermore, the contentious point is the implication that in Britain there “inevitably” will come a time when, for a section of the community, its religious law will override the secular law. Of course, the AoC is suitably vague as to the mechanics of such a situation – it’s only a “theoretical” paper after all – but therein lies the source of the anger of the MSM and many bloggers. Had the AoC, even in the context of a learned work, wished to be completely clear (ie that recourse to sharia law for Moslems was literally no more than another use of the existing private law of England) he could have said so – even with long words – and that would have been the last we would have heard. The AoC for reasons of his own – not, I consider, unconnected with vanity – chose not to make such a point crystal clear. I suspect the AoC is, on one level, well pleased with the publicity he has generated. That the reaction to his talk has been so sharp is a consequence of what the AoC deliberately left hanging in the air.

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  12. Kinderling Avatar

    “The Archbishop is naieve and unworldly. Good. So he should be.”
    Be wise as a serpent…
    “…stop judging a Godly man by Satan’s standards”
    Excuse me while I gag.

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Tom is a retired international lawyer. He was a partner in a City of London law firm and spent almost twenty years abroad serving clients from all over the world.

Returning to London on retirement in 2011, he was dismayed to discover how much liberty had been lost in the UK while he was away.

He’s a classical liberal (libertarian, if you must) who, like his illustrious namesake, considers that

“…government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.”

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