THE LAST DITCH

– Bishop Hill blog – Clause 28 revisited.

What can one say about the proposal to prosecute parents who keep their children from school during LGBT History Month? Bishop Hill, in the linked article, wonders;

…if Cameron's Cuddly Conservatives have actually got the balls to bring Clause 28 in again…

The answer to that is "stop wondering." Of course they haven't. Nor do I think they should. These are matters unmeet for punishment and legislators should keep their noses out. Sexual ethics (like all moral questions) are best left to families, civil society and the remaining fragments of the churches. Nor do I agree with Bishop Hill's commenter, Tristan, who suggests it's unwise to raise this issue in;

…an area with a high muslim population and a high white working class
population, both groups not generally noted for their tolerance of
homosexuality…

I don't claim to speak for Muslims. I have only one Muslim friend and I can't say his religion much influences his life. I don't think gays bother him though. Yes, the Koran is as trenchant on the subject as the Bible. It's clear that Allah and Jehovah both abominate homosexuals, but few of their followers seem to care quite as much as They do. And the ones who do care are usually people one would not much miss from one's social circle. I have seen my Muslim friend behaving affably around people who must have been pinging even the most rudimentary gaydar.

Lgbt
As for the white working class, however, I venture confidently to say they are generally pretty tolerant. At the risk of offending my feminist readers, I would go so far as to suggest that the attitude of most straight working class males is "..all the more women for us…" For that matter, working class women seem to value their gay friends as much as anyone else. Mrs P. trendily had one as a girl in the 70s. He plotted with her the tender trap into which I fell so willingly all those years ago. Everyone knew he was gay. I dare say he took some ribbing (though not nearly as much as I did for aspiring to be an intellectual). The truth was that nobody gave a damn – quite rightly so.

Tolerance, however, is not what the ruling classes now want. They want positive approval, or at least they want – in token of their power – total submission to the idea of approval. I suspect that heterosexual attitudes to gay sex mirror fairly accurately homosexual attitudes to straight sex. "Eugh", pretty much sums it up, in both cases, which seems fair enough to me. Human sexual desire is rich in the variety of its expression and "eugh" may well be our reaction to many sexual practices of which we are nonetheless completely tolerant. Tolerance is necessary for civilised society. Approval is not. Why would a healthy person even need such approval? If I am not seeking to interfere in what you do, why would you raise it with me and demand that I endorse it? It seems impolite, to say the least, if not impertinent.

Bishop Hill is on the money, however, when he speaks of the motivation of the educators;

Children, they believe should be taught to think like bureaucrats, which is to say rarely, uncreatively and only in a progessive, left wing manner.

He is right. This discussion is not about sexual ethics. It is about power. The British State believes that it is the proper fount of moral values. Leaving aside the ethics of that for now, let's be practical. Nothing in history suggests that such a tainted source can be trusted.

Mrs P., her sister and I were discussing the tragedy of British education as we drove back from lunch today, passing one of our old schools in the process. This weekend we are in the area where all three of us grew up – far far behind Labour lines in the North. We were feeling sorry for the many thousands of children, just such as we once were, currently being denied the chance to enjoy their lives to the full by defective local schools. This story came up in the course of that discussion as failing our personal litmus test for education. Done properly, we agreed, education is not about being taught what to think, but how to think. When schools and education authorities try to do do the former, they will generally do more harm than good.

8 responses to “Tolerance vs approval; education vs indoctrination”

  1. LibertyMine Avatar

    Excellent post, couldn’t agree more.

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  2. marksany Avatar

    If the state teaches them how to think – i.e. the way it does, that’s worse than what it teaches them.

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  3. Kinderling Avatar

    Libermunchkin Post, couldn’t disagree with you more.
    “…education is not about being taught what to think, but how to think…”
    Rephrase that, ‘education is not about being taught what to see or hear but how to see or hear’. Doesn’t make sense does it? Education is to draw out from within, not implant a set of rules… for this is Islam, this is Socialism, this is Homoeroticism. Drip, drip, drip on the masses. Behind Islam was a fully fleshed paedophile, behind Socialism was a raging feminist, behind homoeroticism was a raging child. Because they are justifying and infiltarating themselves at every turn! But because it’s on your TV as normal, you argue and rationalise in the most intellectual way for the “proper fount of moral values”. Increasing corruption all around and no idea of it’s source. Interchangeable it is not: “I suspect that heterosexual attitudes to gay sex mirror fairly accurately homosexual attitudes to straight sex. “Eugh”,.. Said the Protestant Church goer to the Catholic, never knowing those plotting their downfall. Do you get it? Those who hominin themselves are the clear and present danger.

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  4. Young Mr. Brown Avatar

    Interesting post. I also blogged on this story (before reading what you wrote), and pondered the difference between education and indoctrination.
    (see http://themarmaladesandwich.blogspot.com/2009/03/more-on-education-and-indoctrination.html)
    I came up with a rather different answer from yours – though I wouldn’t claim that my answer is the full story (it certainly is not) any more than that I would claim that you are wrong.
    I am interested in the phrase “deducation is not about being taught what to think, but how to think.
    It begs two related questions:
    1) “OK – so how are we to think?” &
    2) “Surely in teaching someone how to think, you are (at least in some sense) teaching him to think like you. Isn’t that indoctrination?”

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  5. Andrew Duffin Avatar
    Andrew Duffin

    “education is not about being taught what to think, but how to think.”
    Hear, hear!
    Well said Mr. P.
    It’s a tragedy that it should even need to be said.

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  6. lady macleod Avatar

    Good post, and it’s ALWAYS ABOUT POWER.

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  7. The Ink Slinger Avatar

    Grand sentiments and lofty ideals but one would have thought that education in Britain should primarily be about….ooh….teaching children to add, multiply, write a complete sentence, that sort of thing.
    Sadly in Britain today, such prosaic matters are seen by the State as secondary to moulding an acquiescent, bovine population.

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  8. trrob Avatar

    Quite right it’s almost as if you’re not allowed to not give a s**t.

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Tom is a retired international lawyer. He was a partner in a City of London law firm and spent almost twenty years abroad serving clients from all over the world.

Returning to London on retirement in 2011, he was dismayed to discover how much liberty had been lost in the UK while he was away.

He’s a classical liberal (libertarian, if you must) who, like his illustrious namesake, considers that

“…government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.”

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